[Bob Kuczewski]

The judge's decision is final: 10, 26, 4, 7, 1, 31.

The US Hawks Favorite Flying Sites of 2013 are:

      Lookout Mountain, GA/TN   (nomination #10)
      Local steep streets   (nomination #26)
      Fort Funston, CA   (nomination #4)
      Chelan Butte, WA   (nomination #7)
      Torrey Pines, CA   (nomination #1)
      Zapata, Tx   (nomination #31)

[SamKellner]

Good work Guys

Bob, That message posting problem might have occurred a time or two on my end. I wasn't sure whether I had clicked preview or submit

[Bob Kuczewski]

Oooops!!    

Hello Fellow Hawks,

It gives me great pleasure to announce the results of our 2013 "Favorite Flying Sites" election.

Under the wise and gentle chairmanship of Bill Cummings, we've narrowed the original 35 nominations down to these six winners (listed here in alphabetical order):

    Chelan Butte Washington
    Fort Funston California
    Lookout Mountain Georgia/Tennessee
    Torrey Pines California
    Local Steep Streets Anywhere USA
    Zapata Texas

The full discussion and open voting results are available on our web site at http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1280.

This election is part of an on-going effort to build a new hang gliding association based on transparency and pilot involvement. Please join us as we continue to work for toward that goal.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
858-204-7499 - Please call any time.

Did I say "alphabetical order"?        Gee I hate it when that happens.       

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, That message posting problem might have occurred a time or two on my end. I wasn't sure whether I had clicked preview or submit

Thanks for that input Sam. I'm not sure if it's a server delay/time out issue or if something else is going on. One of the problems with running a web site is that we depend on a hosting service. At the time when I established the US Hawks, I picked one of the "gold standard" companies to host our site, but I believe their service has been on the decline. We'll keep an eye on it and see if gets better or worse.

For now, if you click the submit button and you don't see the "This message has been posted successfully" screen, immediately press your browser's "back" button and then submit it again. Repeat this until you get the "This message has been posted successfully" screen which confirms that your message has been posted. Here's what that should look like:

Post_Submitted.png (25.6 KiB) Viewed 7094 times

Thanks again for that input Sam. It's great working with a bunch of people who want to make things ... better!!

[Bill Cummings]

The Test Vote #2 revealed that “Trojans” could raise havoc with the Hawks voting procedures without some filter in place to protect the process.

Bob K. had mentioned that local clubs in California had decided to set up voting rules that would protect their clubs going forward.

Almost any endeavor that a group sets out upon will face trolls, gremlins hackers, and the list goes on and on. If you buy a computer you need firewalls, and antivirus software to fight off all the low-life energetic scumbags. Even that will not be enough. You need good planning too. To that end I was hoping for some ideas from the Hawks in a “Brainstorming,” session.

Looking at the Torrey Hawks Membership Rules I found this:
Article III - Membership
The membership of the Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club shall consist of individuals whose applications for membership have been accepted by the Association. Voting members must hold a USHPA rating of H4 or above and have flown a hang glider at the Torrey Pines Gliderport within the previous three years.

Of course each club can have their own rules but the Torrey Hawks rule would make it difficult for pilots in the RGSA if we were to adopt the same wording.

I read this to effectively say that If someone like Bob K. only had his current P rating and did not have a H rating he could still be a member but without voting rights. The wording looks to me to be an attempt to retain control over the destiny of hang gliding by keeping it in the hands of the dwindling minority population of hang gliding pilots.

This seemed like a power grab to me until I reversed the situation in my mind.

If hang gliding was growing faster in our combined sport of hang gliding and paragliding and I was working with the majority of HG pilots and my actions were adversely affecting the paraglider pilots, well I’m sorry but that would not be fair to the minority of PG pilots.

For me to take actions that have an effect on the sport of paragliding I should be required to be a PG rated pilot.

But I should have to give up an example where this is an ongoing problem. Right?

Well let me see now -- hey what about Torrey Pines!
I see money as the root of the evil in this skirmish.
USHPA can‘t be bothered with this problem and that is not right. (I digress.)

So what ideas can be brainstormed to protect the interests of both the plumbers and the baggies equally since I don‘t see that happening right now?

So Bob the language for membership wording for voting rules doesn’t really work way over here to the east. Probably worse off would be Tommy.
Do you have some ideas that we can sort over about how voting rules could be set up to keep the national hawks and the chapter hawks headed the right way when it comes to voting rules?

It would be nice if we all could have some ground work done for hopefully one day we all decide to vote on the US Hawks officially starting up as a parallel organization or what ever else is decided.
Anyone have some suggestions?

[Bob Kuczewski]

As always, Bill, your post brings up a lot of good points!! It's late right now, so I probably won't stay focussed on what you've asked, but I'll tell you waht this discussion raises in my mind...

The biggest question that seems (to me) to be implied by your post is: "What do we want the US Hawks to be?".

I think my best answer is also in the Torrey Hawks Bylaws (both Mission Statement and Purpose):

Article II - Purpose
The Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club is dedicated to promoting and protecting the sport of Hang Gliding at the Torrey Pines Gliderport.

I think the US Hawks Mission Statement could be similarly simple and sweet ... substituting "in the United States" for "at the Torrey Pines Gliderport":

The US Hawks Hang Gliding Association is dedicated to promoting and protecting the sport of Hang Gliding in the United States.

You'll notice that the Torrey Hawks mission statement doesn't mention paragliding because the Torrey Hawks are neither for nor against paragliding in any way (even though I'm an H4/P4 pilot myself). So if including paragliding pilots helps accomplish that mission statement by being more inclusive of those we share the sky with ... then we should be including paragliding pilots because it helps accomplish our mission. Now whether including paragliders actually does help us accomplish our mission ("to promote and protect the sport of Hang Gliding in the US") can be a source of debate, and that's a good debate to have. So the decision to be inclusive of paragliding (or not) isn't about whether we like paragliding (or not). It's about whether we think that move will help us promote and protect the sport of Hang Gliding in the US.

In that regard, I think of our Mission Statement as the yardstick by which we measure everything we do. That's why we have to come up with a Mission Statement that really says what we want it to say ... nothing more and nothing less.

Here's another thought about the HG/PG issue. I think the handwriting is on the wall that USHPA is becoming more and more of a PG association. So biwingual clubs (like the RGSA) that really want to honor both sports CANNOT do so by being an exclusively USHPA chapter.

Let me tell you a story about the San Diego Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association (SDHGPA). When David Jebb began bullying hang gliding pilots, we went to the SDHGPA looking for support. I was a member of the SDHGPA at that time, and I expected them to stand up fairly for everyone. But they didn't. So after about 8 months of begging the SDHGPA to support hang gliding, several of us eventually gave up on them and decided to start the Torrey Hawks. So our "two club system" in San Diego is a legacy of the PG arrogance within the SDHGPA.

My point here is that both sports can get along well in a single club if they are considerate of each other's issues. In the case of the RGSA, I hope the PG members of your club will see that USHPA is slowly inching away from its once strong support of hang gliding, and that leaves many HG pilots dissatisfied with having to rely on USHPA in order to fly. If the PG members of your club are understanding of that situation, then they may feel it is entirely reasonable for your club to also be a Chapter of the US Hawks so that hang glider pilots will be satisfied that they have at least one national association looking out for them as well. That's the position I would encourage, and that's the position that makes pilots of each wing happy that the RGSA isn't choosing one national association over another - they're choosing both. In fact, if a new PG-Only national association were to be started ( I mean, other than USHPA ), then it would be reasonable for your club to be a Chapter in that association as well if that's what many of your PG members wanted. Why not?

That brings up one other big problem we're going to face ... which is breaking down the mental barriers that USHPA's monopoly has created in people's minds. We know that everyone is free to shop at multiple grocery stores, and everyone is free to have multiple bank accounts at multiple banks, and everyone is free to have multiple email accounts and multiple cell phone contracts and multiple credit cards - all with different companies. So why is it so hard to imagine that a club could belong to two different national associations? There's no reason why the RGSA couldn't benefit from everything that USHPA offers - and at the same time - benefit from everything the US Hawks offers. That's what it means to have a free market. It means your club is empowered to ... choose!!

It's like grocery stores. They all want your business, so they're all trying to come up with sales and offers and nice experiences to make you want to shop there. Has it ever felt like USHPA was bending over backwards to earn your membership? If not, then why not? The answer is that they have a monopoly, and they're exhibiting the classic symptom of a monopoly: insensitivity to their customers. The only way to fix that is to fix the hang gliding/paragliding marketplace so people can ... once again ... choose!!

I'm sorry that I've gotten a bit off topic, but I'm thinking about the upcoming RGSA discussion about whether or not to join the US Hawks. I think the best thing the RGSA could do to improve USHPA - for themselves and for everyone - is to join the Hawks. It's kind of like letting your banker know that you've also got an account with the local credit union when you're applying for a loan.   

[soar8hours]

I am not into trying to figure out multiple steps to do much online.
That being said, I did want to mention a ridge in southwest Virgina that I do fly alot.
It's called BIG WALKER Mountain and is 100 miles long.
We have a paved road to launch & steep slope takeoff.
The Mechanicsburg launch is at about the half way point.
Search Big Walker Hang Gliding on youtube.
We have a page here too.
http://bigwalkermountain.blogspot.com/

Thanks,
Tommy

[Bill Cummings]

Wow Tommy, what a great site you have there.
I really like the shower idea.