[Nikolatesla]

Hey everybody , not much of a poster but there is a do it attitude here.

Im based in a small city in the south of oz where there are a few nice coastal sites that come on a few times a week .

been flying (all types but hang gliding is my go to) for 45 years with 10 year break ....harness seem harder to get into but all in order .

I have a disability that has me bed ridden for 20% of the time on th couch for 40% of the time and get about 5 good flying days a year where all the conditions are in place.

When I am well there I am normal if a bit physically weak.



As many would know ,coastal soaring is not high risk for any one competent and it is like riding a bike .

I had a jellyfish pilot ask me for my credentials and my answer was to call the police if he saw acrime ,or perform a citezens arrest if he could see the public at risk.

he then gave me some bulls*** on how he could be sued if i wasnt compliant ....

We have created monsters .

Why the heck should i join and pay an organisation 300 bucks for 5 days flying in public space.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hello New Old Guy From down under,

Welcome again to the U.S. Hawks!! With your unusual user name, I wasn't sure if you were a hang glider pilot or the next generation of spam-bot. I'm glad to see your post confirming the former!!

Coastal soaring has long been my favorite flying. It's good to read that you're still enjoying it.

As many would know ,coastal soaring is not high risk for any one competent and it is like riding a bike .

I had a jellyfish pilot ask me for my credentials and my answer was to call the police if he saw a crime , or perform a citezens arrest if he could see the public at risk.

he then gave me some bulls*** on how he could be sued if i wasnt compliant ....

We have created monsters .

We have indeed created monsters in the sports of hang gliding and paragliding. I'm sorry to see that's true in both hemispheres. Let's join together to fix that.

[Nikolatesla]

All good Bob,

My anonomity is not to hide but to be in a better position if /when brown gunk makes fan contact.

I cannot see why it could be offensive to any one to fly free on public land when no one is about .

It may be that by joining the so called organisations you actually sign away any rights you may have had before doing do.

On the hgfa form there is mention of this waiver is in permanent effect dues paid or not ...

Perhaps i have more right to sue a jellyfish than they have to sue me?

Not that it would ever happen but that is the fear sold by insurance otganisations .

I fly for freedon and to wipe the cobwebs from my mind ...not competition .

I understand the competitive environment does increase risk for all ...

If the same problem is happening there then its just business doing what it is addicted to doing ..growing on anyone with fist full of dollars and making rules that apply to the idiot as well as the informed and experienced.

We need some kind if statement of agreement as to air navigation rules to become informend participants. with no waiver .
In other words go back to the late 70's.

I do have a license that says i can fly an aircraft less than 5700 kg,s

[Bill Cummings]

Interesting point. I wonder if even though my ratings evaporated when
I stopped paying dues if my waiver evaporated too here in the USA.
OR should I revoke my waiver by return receipt mail?

[Nikolatesla]

Interesting point. I wonder if even though my ratings evaporated when
I stopped paying dues if my waiver evaporated too here in the USA.
OR should I revoke my waiver by return receipt mail?

In the old days here at leat, We were required to agree to comply with air navigation orders which were 300 ft not near people ..common sense for the most part.

Those odres now imply but do not specificially state that member ship of organisation x is required .

There is something very wrong with forcing membership of a private organisation by government .

You guys have a constitution to fall back on here its still a form of colonial rule ,afer all we are mostly convicts sent here in chains to ahniliate the native pipulations with disease and sperm.

But singning something that agrees to anything ,especially something that can change at any time is at the core of the arrogance and stupidity of the otganisation and those who sign it ,,,No offence intended to any body who did not read/understand the clause .

Most thing are like this ....on line stuff especially and all it does in the long run is weaken the more important parts that may be in our interests.

I just cant abide it applyung to aviation.


If my sole income was from wuffo pilots hang glider or paraglider i would be forced to tow the line .

There are 2 sides one to help idiots with money not die and have their teachers adorened with respect and medals ...did i mention money?.

The other is those who have it in their blood and know the risks however minimal and just want to fly free and safe , especially from diversions of this kind.

what came first ?

[Craig Muhonen]

I like your instinctive statement..... "I fly because.....". People who want to pay to ride, should get on a " boeing" or learn to fly themselves. You can't "free fly" with someone "hanging" on your every move and ready to sue you if you look at them wrong. The rules at Torrey (and california) have been rewritten to say "we fly"..... because we pay our pilots (and our lawyers) a lot of money, and very few of our " paying customers" become pilots. If they did we'd be out of business. I bet that small low key hang glider pilot training hills produce many more pilots who say "I fly because........" .
"Good on ya" , New old guy, from another new old guy.

I like your avatar

[Nikolatesla]

Thanks Craig ,

I would suggest that there is not a decline in hang gliding as those who started out had an attitude ro fly ,a space in their hearts and minds that needed filling .

Going for a cruise on a motorcycle can do the same thing but has way too many uncontrollable risks ..other drivers mainly.

Being an older guy, not interested in competing ( spot landing would be an exception) and dont think the risk on inland flying or towing on most days is controllable .

however a coastal site where you can see the wind on the water and have a good forecast the risk is just you but increases as other airborne obstacles enter the space.

It is usually time to land and go home if the airborne obstacles become more than a few

I have noticed that paragliders now have smaller chutes that can handle 15+ knots but their performance is dismall and are always below me and can never reach the secondary lift band. Just like the rogallos of the 70's .
its almost time to go home anyway at 15 knots .

in 5-12 knots they can ( the bigger chutes) out climb us but only because they can catch bubbles a bit better.

I would say about 1 in 4 paraglider pilots have a good attidude but that is why the heavy hand of supervision ...leave me the $%$^& out of it !

of course these small chutes are in deadman zone for most of their time ...on the site i am reffering to at least.

Personally i carry no chute and never will as if i think i need a chute its time to not take off or if airborne its time to land .

A question for all the experienced , No body seems to do the 180, down wind just below launch to top land any more.?

They are very satisfying when you get them just right and safe as long as you always overshoot rather then undershoot.

Perhaps this practice disturbs some ?

[Craig Muhonen]

Not these guys. Check out "Hang Gliding Toplanding Compilation Monte Cucco." The videography, the music, and the obvious comradery, is fantastic.
I got my H .050 in 1972, but feel like a H 4 when I helped launch my friends from 12,000' and watched them soar. Watching this video makes me feel the same. It's some outstanding "pattern" work.
I was in Sydney in 1968 for 7 days and you guys made this young Marine feel like a king.

Tango Yankee

[Nikolatesla]

Good video but that is not the type of landing i mean.

Perhaps i will have to do a video ?

Might take a few months as a can only fly when my studip illness receeds and conditions are good .

I mean cliff/steep hill top landing where the air is mostly clean at launch but crappy air further back .

Surely the practice has not died out ?

1 head out to sea untill you are just out of the lift band and just below launch
2 speed downwind toward landing spot to arrive just level or just below just right ot just left depending in which way the wind is off at the spot.
3 hard 180 and you should land on your feet with the ocasional mild whack.
Practice a bit high and keep getting lower ,if you get it right you will stall as your feet touch and possibly moving backwards a bit (relative to the ground )
It is the most no stress landing ever and seems much harder than it is .but there is commitment required for the last 3 seconds.

Forgot to mention to make sure there are no inflated jelly fish anywhere behind launch.

many if us did this in the 80's because the wind might stop for a while and there were often many knolls where you could take a break.

rather than have the days flying badly interupted.

You can do this on sheer cliff but much more likely to whack.


I should add that any guy launching has right of way on this case so practice away from real launch or as i do ,fly alone mostly.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Check out "Hang Gliding Toplanding Compilation Monte Cucco."