[terryJm]

May I advance the proposal to the membership that Political issues be discused in the FREE SPEECH zone, as well as personal problems, pschological, raciest, or Religeios, as well as any thing ellse, unrelated to soaring. It has been my experiance that the only time I could tell if a politition was lying was if their mouth was moving. And to expect a Splinter group to influence a national ellection is irrational. We need to attract Pilots of all persuation, Phobice expresions tend to drive away the best, Please do not take this personal, as praCTICALITY is my priority! THANKS, Terry

[Free]

May I advance the proposal to the membership that Political issues be discused in the FREE SPEECH zone, as well as personal problems, pschological, raciest, or Religeios, as well as any thing ellse, unrelated to soaring. It has been my experiance that the only time I could tell if a politition was lying was if their mouth was moving. And to expect a Splinter group to influence a national ellection is irrational. We need to attract Pilots of all persuation, Phobice expresions tend to drive away the best, Please do not take this personal, as praCTICALITY is my priority! THANKS, Terry

What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?

You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Terry is making a sound suggestion to help grow the sport of hang gliding by creating a new national organization dedicated to hang gliding.

I believe that diluting that effort with other causes undermines our ability to do so. So I'd like to see non-hang-gliding topics in the Free Speech Zone. Can anyone make an argument against that? Warren?

[Free]

I believe that diluting that effort with other causes undermines our ability to do so. So I'd like to see non-hang-gliding topics in the Free Speech Zone. Can anyone make an argument against that? Warren?

I believe that you have already made the argument:

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

If your house was on fire would you want me to yell fire from your front door or would you rather have me go down the street a mile or so and yell fire from there?

The fact that your house on fire is not a political issue, its a news event.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Knowledge is power.

Free speech, in a box, is not free speech.

May I advance the proposal to the membership that Political issues be discused in the FREE SPEECH zone, as well as personal problems, pschological, raciest, or Religeios, as well as any thing ellse, unrelated to soaring. It has been my experiance that the only time I could tell if a politition was lying was if their mouth was moving. And to expect a Splinter group to influence a national ellection is irrational. We need to attract Pilots of all persuation, Phobice expresions tend to drive away the best, Please do not take this personal, as praCTICALITY is my priority! THANKS, Terry

I think Terry makes the point for a post that he doesn't want anyone else to see.

[Bob Kuczewski]

If your house was on fire would you want me to yell fire from your front door or would you rather have me go down the street a mile or so and yell fire from there?

If you're trying to tell the country that their house is on fire, then posting to the US Hawks is about the worst place to get your message out. With regard to US politics, the US Hawks forum isn't a "mile or so" down the road ... it's another galaxy!!

Free speech, in a box, is not free speech.

This entire forum is a box - a very small box somewhere in an obscure corner of the Internet. I'm just trying to keep it an organized box so people can find what they're looking for. How do you think it would go over for me to start posting about hang gliding problems on a US political forum? How long would I be tolerated?

Warren, I've asked to talk to you on the phone so we can discuss how to help your cause without hurting the US Hawks. You don't want to do that, so I'm having to start doing what I think is best without your input. I'd rather have a discussion, but that's not in my control.

[Rick Masters]

I don't have a problem with keeping topics on topic. That's what moderators are for.
I hate it when a topic is pulled to the side when someone wants to discuss something else.
Even though I might agree with the second argument, it dilutes the focus of the post.
And it has the potential of reducing the effectiveness of the forum.
We have every opportunity here to discuss anything we want.
Let's do it in a manner that works.
Someone needs to get a clue.

[Free]

Someone needs to get a clue.

The whole country needs to get a clue.
I used to think that people that could wrap their head around hang gliding would be sharper than most of the masses with minds in little boxes constructed by those that engineer/control their lives, thoughts and beliefs.
Maybe I was wrong.

Nonetheless, there is an awakening going on in the world. A small but growing percentage can see past the delusions and denial and focus on issues that affect the future of mankind, above and beyond that of individual self interest and escapism.

Hang gliding mentality may share similarity in thoughts of freedom but the twist of escapism seems to put a lid on deeper ideas.. hard to say.. so many people tune out for different reasons.

People tune out because they have been indoctrinated to tune out anything that isn't handed to them from 'accepted/authorized' sources:
The Prussian school system of generating useful slaves that aren't able to think for themselves.
The whore media/entertainment system.
The military..

Its all brainwashing... of course when they are done with you in the military they send you home to die from all the toxins they have pumped into your body, or commit suicide as our troops are doing at the rate of one every 80 minutes because their lives are so screwed up.. but I digress.. we should just keep our focus on erecting this house of cards and escapism.

The laws of physics or reality are no match for what we imagine the world to be.
Blue pills are very popular these days.

[Bob Kuczewski]

Warren,

I share a lot of your concerns, and I have acted on them in other venues. I helped put together a web site for a group of people who are working to bring our country back to its founding principles of liberty and self-reliance. I don't talk about it here because that only divides us.

There may be hang glider pilots who want to support hang gliding but don't agree with my larger political views (or yours). Do we want to alienate their support of hang gliding because they don't belong to the same political party or ideology? Does that help hang gliding? No.

But more importantly, bringing up non-hang-gliding issues on a hang gliding forum only alienates people with regard to both hang gliding and non-hang-gliding issues. So you end up losing in both dimensions. It may feel good to expound on what's wrong with this country, but if you do it in a venue where no one wants to listen, then what has really been accomplished? You may end up doing more harm to your cause than good.

I do want to provide a place for people to express non-hang-gliding views. And that's why I've created the Free Speech Zones. I created them exactly for people like you who feel passionately about non-hang-gliding issues and want a place to speak to hang gliding pilots about non-hang-gliding issues. I welcome your use of that area, but please understand that bringing those topics into the main forum is not helping either cause.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Bob Kuczewski

[Free]

Warren,

I share a lot of your concerns, and I have acted on them in other venues. I helped put together a web site for a group of people who are working to bring our country back to its founding principles of liberty and self-reliance. I don't talk about it here because that only divides us.

There may be hang glider pilots who want to support hang gliding but don't agree with my larger political views (or yours). Do we want to alienate their support of hang gliding because they don't belong to the same political party or ideology? Does that help hang gliding? No.

But more importantly, bringing up non-hang-gliding issues on a hang gliding forum only alienates people with regard to both hang gliding and non-hang-gliding issues. So you end up losing in both dimensions. It may feel good to expound on what's wrong with this country, but if you do it in a venue where no one wants to listen, then what has really been accomplished? You may end up doing more harm to your cause than good.

I do want to provide a place for people to express non-hang-gliding views. And that's why I've created the Free Speech Zones. I created them exactly for people like you who feel passionately about non-hang-gliding issues and want a place to speak to hang gliding pilots about non-hang-gliding issues. I welcome your use of that area, but please understand that bringing those topics into the main forum is not helping either cause.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Bob Kuczewski

Oh, no problem.. it didn't take nearly as much time as my response, earlier.

Both efforts may be in vain because it seems you are still mischaracterizing my efforts as politics when all I'm trying to do is get people to wake up to a painful truth before its too late. Time is running out and the message is either being ignored or I'm just rotten at getting the point accross.

I'm not talking 'Ginger or Mary Anne' as is your straw man argument of politics.
Politics is a subset of the big picture.. politics is corrupt... so let's just ignore it..
Let me know how that works out.

A giant foot is coming down to squash us like bugs and the "political correctness" here is, 'don't make anyone uncomfortable with anything other than happy thoughts'.. let's space out and envision 60 degree, tip vortice thermal generation.. hmmm... let me know how that works out..

I haven't even posted for weeks and hardly anyone else has either.
Rick, thanks for stirring this up. I had mostly given up on the people here.
I had hopes for reaching out to Bob, with a simple physics conundrum but even a blatant
physics impossibility was not enough to break through the years of government indoctrination.
Steel core building can collapse at the speed of gravity if the government says so.
One physical impossibility is not enough evidence that the truth is not being told.
Happy thoughts, happy thoughts... remember... happy thoughts make us happy and safe.
The house is not on fire. Go back to sleep.

Speaking of physics, and to bring this back to the narrow focus of hang gliding, Tad Earickson, posted this quote at kitestrings:

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/01/17

I have to agree with miguel here. I believe pitch authority is greater on the base tube, but roll authority is much quicker and more authoritative when upright. No doubt about it.

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic10-190.html

So, is the thinking still the same now, Bob? Is roll authority really better from the uprights?
How so?

Thanks for taking the time in reading this.

Warren

PS: Please send the link to the website for liberty and self reliance that you helped create.
Things like that should bring people together rather than being divisive.

[miguel]

Try this: go upright, grab the downtube about 2/3 of the way down. Pull your body over as far as possible and kick your legs out beyond the downtube plane. Not only can you do this quicker than when prone, you can get your effective weight further away from the midline than if prone.

Try it sometime.