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Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2958
Location: Montana
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
#41
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Count me in!
Catherine and I can donate the venue for the first brain-storming meeting.
http://www.thefinleypointlodge.com
_________________
In a frozen State of mind!
H-4 (1976), Wing history=Manta standard,Windlord 1B, Cumulus 10, Saturn 147 & Axis 13
Learn to fly hang gliders
(click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
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Dennis D
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Crestline, CA.
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: |
#42
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| bobk wrote: |
For those who didn't see it on the other topic, Joe Faust has offered
up his own long-standing web domain for the new organization - HGAUSA.
So that's one possibility on the table already. I think all the
Founders (in other words, everyone who wants to be a Founding member -
between now and July 4th) should participate in that decision. Maybe we
can have an on-line vote. I'd like to see this entire organization be
run on-line ... and out in the open. Let's start like that from the
very beginning. |
I think that Joe having offered the name and domain is freakin'
awesome! It really has a great ring to it, easy to remember. I really
like it! (Does it show? ;) )
_________________
Dennis Duvall
Crestline Soaring Society - Torrey Hawks - The Dead Poet Society - USHPA - The Cult of the Speckled Cow.
"Fly Naked! The birds could use a laugh". |
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OSCAR
3 thumbs up
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Long Beach,Ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: Founding Member |
#43
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I'm In BoB as a Founding Member . See ya at AJX Tomorrow. 
_________________
Oscar
Member: Founding Member HGAA - CSS - Torrey Hawk #174 - SBSA
Rating: HGAA 6
Wing: WW F2-225 - Northwing Horizon ET180 |
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Dennis D
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Crestline, CA.
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:49 pm Post subject: |
#44
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| joefaust wrote: |
| Dennis D wrote: |
Hi Bob,
.... as an un-rated pilot, ...
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Dennis,
1. In one perspective, joining in no way should bother your chosen path of being rated.
2. In one perspective you just ...seems to me ... acted radically
to be rated as "un-rated" which is a rating status. In one path of
rating, you could rate yourself as already qualified over many actions
and skills, I would venture. Try it; rate yourself on something in hang
gliding. Declare such proudly. What is it that you know pretty well;
rate yourself as having that knowledge and perhaps skill.
Just received firm notice of another founding member of new org:
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Hi Joe!
Hey, I thoroughly respect what you've said, I should probably explain my mindset.
I only have 120 logged flights, out of which 4 are tandems and 6 are
altitude solo flights, out of those 6, I pounded in twice, the last
one, I REALLY pounded in. Since then, I've not flown in four months
allowing some healing time, while I am again launching myself into hang
gliding, I still have some flights to complete where I don't pound in
to earn my H2, I feel that in light of my having pounded in twice, I
should remain humble, earn my "wings" as it were, this would lend to
credibility that I am a "real pilot" over being a "really BAD pilot".
;)
Since my last pound-in, I have decided to give up crashing for flying.
-Dennis
_________________
Dennis Duvall
Crestline Soaring Society - Torrey Hawks - The Dead Poet Society - USHPA - The Cult of the Speckled Cow.
"Fly Naked! The birds could use a laugh". |
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Dennis D
3 thumbs up
Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Crestline, CA.
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Founding Member |
#45
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| OSCAR wrote: |
| I'm In BoB as a Founding Member . See ya at AJX Tomorrow. |
Yup! I'll be at AJX tomorrow too. I can't wait! I'll be dreaming of air
tonight, and yes, I've elected to be a founding member as well. I think
this new agency will be a great thing. Thus, I humbly toss my name into
the hat.
_________________
Dennis Duvall
Crestline Soaring Society - Torrey Hawks - The Dead Poet Society - USHPA - The Cult of the Speckled Cow.
"Fly Naked! The birds could use a laugh".
Last edited by Dennis D
on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OSCAR
3 thumbs up
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 358
Location: Long Beach,Ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Founding Member |
#46
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| Dennis D wrote: |
| OSCAR wrote: |
| I'm In BoB as a Founding Member . See ya at AJX Tomorrow. |
Yup! I'll be at AJX tomorrow too. I can't wait! I'll be dreaming of air tonight. |
Ya Me too ,It will be fun .I had a great time last year.
_________________
Oscar
Member: Founding Member HGAA - CSS - Torrey Hawk #174 - SBSA
Rating: HGAA 6
Wing: WW F2-225 - Northwing Horizon ET180 |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
#47
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Welcome Windlord, Oscar, and Dennis!!!
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
#48
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| slimchance wrote: |
| I love seeing this! Cant beat them, join them, I don't think so. I am only a H-2 so I dont have a clue about this. But I love the idea of competition. Thanks for all your effort. |
The real question is whether we will have the follow through to make it
real. The people in power are accustomed to little uprisings that
quickly fizzle into nothing.
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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SkyPilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 693
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
#49
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I would be pleased to be a founding member of this new and glorious organization!
_________________
Wingless
H2 - FL CL FSL
Torrey Hawks
I DO NOT endorse the products below - UNLESS I WILL BE PAID A
COMMISSION - in which case I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY ENDORSE these products. |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: |
#50
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| SkyPilot wrote: |
| I would be pleased to be a founding member of this new and glorious organization! |
You're in!!!
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
#51
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Two thoughts:
1. While I think the umbrella organization is currently the best answer
to separating insurance/FAA matters from internal management including
pilot training and certification, there is no need for the umbrella
until we find an underwriter to offer us coverage. IOW, we can go ahead
and do our hang gliding only organization and in a second step found
the umbrella and get others on board. This also gives us more time.
There's probably not really a chance to invite others and get this
hammered out until July 4th.
The one disadvantage to this is the others may be more motivated to
join if they're on board from day 1. Rather then be invited to a group
they know as sometimes a little hostile. In my view it's more important
to get others on board then to make the July 4th deadline, but I see
the emotional value in 7/4.
2. If the new organization appeals to a good number of hang glider
pilots, an arrangement with USHPA may be possible. Hang glider pilots
defect in mass to the new organization and the USHPA can keep the
volume they say they need for the insurer by offering us a group rate.
They'll have to accept our pilot certification system or no deal.
IIRC hang gliders make up a little over half of the total USHPA
members. Not all will jump ship, but we may get a critical number
together to get USHPA to accept the terms. It could also be USHPA
doesn't really need the numbers even though they say they do. There's
no way of telling, since all negotiations with the insurer are
confidential, AFAIK.
If they don't really need us we'll have no leverage, but it also means
there is at least one insurance provider who accepts a smaller group. |
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4481
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
#52
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I had hgaoa.com registered a while back... it's available.
I'll be a founding member, for the sake of competition.
I have zero energy, time, or money to give, though. I'm spent... the Big O Loop was damned near a bridge too far.
I'd rather see USHPA straighten up and fly right, plus I have my doubts
about the ability to overcome HG pilot apathy, but if insurance costs
are low enough, this pig could fly. ;)
JW |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
#53
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| knumbknuts wrote: |
| I'd
rather see USHPA straighten up and fly right, plus I have my doubts
about the ability to overcome HG pilot apathy, but if insurance costs
are low enough, this pig could fly. |
There may be room for the two organizations to co-exist and share one
insurance contract. USHPA could view the new organization as sub group,
if that's more appealing to them. Until a separate insurance is found,
if ever, that's what the new org is really. If the USHPA turns nice the
new org may assimilate back into it.
All kinds of possibilities, but first we need to group and voice our wishes. |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
#54
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JW,
you're in, and I know you're overloaded. I look forward to seeing the
Big O Loop and the Big O loop tomorrow (the second version assumes that
Owen will be competing in the aerobatics competition!!). You've done a
ton of work on it, and I might find myself calling it the Big OKK loop.
| Holger wrote: |
| All kinds of possibilities, but first we need to group and voice our wishes. |
I agree with all of your possibilites, and I also agree that forming a
group is the first step to get to any of them. You've got it all
figured out very logically (as usual).
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:11 am Post subject: |
#55
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| Holger wrote: |
| 1.
While I think the umbrella organization is currently the best answer to
separating insurance/FAA matters from internal management including
pilot training and certification, there is no need for the umbrella
until we find an underwriter to offer us coverage. IOW, we can go ahead
and do our hang gliding only organization and in a second step found
the umbrella and get others on board. This also gives us more time.
There's probably not really a chance to invite others and get this
hammered out until July 4th. |
I think this is a good approach. First it limits the size and scope of
the organization while leaving it open for expansion later. Second, one
of our competitive advantages will be cost. If we can keep the
organization as lean as possible (in terms of overhead) we have a
better chance of being competitive when it's time to offer insurance.
I'd like to shoot for an annual insurance fee of around $50.
Also, I think we should offer different kinds of memberships which
should always include a free membership of some sort as both an
outreach effort and a lobbying tool. For example, I'd like our tandem
pilots to be able to give out a free membership to anyone who takes
even one tandem lesson. I'd also like us to give out free memberships
to people who come to our outreach events. That allows us to send them
reminders about upcoming events and gives us a better chance of
converting them into regular pilot members. Also, if someone fails to
renew their paid (insurance) membership, then they should revert to
free status and remain on our membership rolls for things like email
communication. I noticed with USHPA that as soon as my membership
expired, I was removed from their email list and I didn't get the
recent call for Regional Director candidates (maybe that was
intentional ).
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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pud
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 150
Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
#56
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Wow, a new US HG association. Things must be bad.
As an observer from across the water I must admit that I haven’t taken
too much interest in US HG politics, but that is not to say I don’t
care. After all, one day there might be a W.H.G.A (World Hang Gliding
Association).
What went wrong in the US?
Regards & good luck
Mike
_________________
Skyhook BogRog built from plans
Own design and built experiment
Skyhook Sunspot
Skyhook Sabre (CFX)
23 year rest…
Airwave Calypso
Airwave Kiss |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: |
#57
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| pud wrote: |
Wow, a new US HG association. Things must be bad.
What went wrong in the US? |
Hi Mike,
It's probably the same thing that's happened a million times:
Organization starts out lean and supportive of its members.
Organization grows and gains more power.
Organization becomes a monopoly.
Organization becomes self-important.
Organization loses focus on members.
Organization lives to sustain itself.
You can substitute "Government" or "Business" for "Organization" in
most sentences, and you can substitute "Citizen" or "Customer" for
"Member" in most sentences.
It's probably part of the reason that most life forms choose
reproduction (creating new ones) to perpetuate rather than continually
fixing old ones. It's also why many computer programmers will
eventually start a new program rather than continuing to patch some
monster piece of code. Eventually things get old, bloated, and
outdated, and they need to be replaced. If they're healthy, then that
replacement can happen internally. But if they resist the needed
changes, then that replacement will come from the outside.
So it's just the life cycle of all things playing itself out in the
sports of hang gliding and paragliding. Not too exciting ... but
necessary just the same.
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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SeeMarkFly
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1174
Location: Lakeview
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
#58
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| bobk wrote: |
| Eventually things get old, bloated, and outdated, and they need to be replaced. |
Wait, I've got a few years left in me. 
Actually I've been waiting for YOU to join ME.
This from Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:29 am.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=74202#74202
| SeeMarkFly wrote: |
I've
always been ahead of my time, so I'll just sit here and wait for
everybody else to catch-up to the idea that we NEED to pool our money,
numbers, efforts, and passions, into HANG GLIDING.
USHPA SUCKS (aka Mark Webber)
p.s. The USHPA SUCKS. |
com'on guys, TWO years behind me????
I'm in!
_________________
Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
Old Super Sport (I can't land this one)
complacency about complacency is the true enemy. |
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mtpilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 189
Location: montana
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: |
#59
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i would also like to be in the founding members. Perhaps we could
offer instruction and our own certification as a challenge to USHPA
monopoly.
_________________
MK4,eurosport 167,enterprise combat 152,
laminar st 14. H2. |
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mtpilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 189
Location: montana
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: |
#60
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| pud wrote: |
Wow, a new US HG association. Things must be bad.
As an observer from across the water I must admit that I haven’t
taken too much interest in US HG politics, but that is not to say I
don’t care. After all, one day there might be a W.H.G.A (World Hang
Gliding Association).
What went wrong in the US?
Regards & good luck
Mike |
Americans don't like taking crap from anyone it all
started over 230 years ago. no offense intended.
_________________
MK4,eurosport 167,enterprise combat 152,
laminar st 14. H2. |
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