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HGXC
3 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2151
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
#61
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I'm in 
Where do I sign up?
Dennis
_________________
Organ Donation Saves Lives
Glider = ATOS B-V, Rating = H5 |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
#62
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| mtpilot wrote: |
Americans don't like taking crap from anyone
it all started over 230 years ago. |
230 years already!?! It seems like the bicentennial was only yesterday. I guess I'm getting old. 
But you're right about Americans.
Welcome to our newest Founding Members:
SeeMarkFly (Mark Webber)
mtpilot
HGXC (Dennis)
At some point I guess I'll have to start getting real names for people. 
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
#63
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| SeeMarkFly wrote: |
Actually I've been waiting for YOU to join ME.
This from Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:29 am.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=74202#74202
| SeeMarkFly wrote: |
| I've
always been ahead of my time, so I'll just sit here and wait for
everybody else to catch-up to the idea that we NEED to pool our money,
numbers, efforts, and passions, into HANG GLIDING. |
com'on guys, TWO years behind me???? |
I wanted to make sure that I had exhausted every attempt to fix the
problems within USHPA first. When Lisa Tate refused to accept my motion
on the Accountability Amendment (open voting by the Board) I could see
the writing on the wall. But I didn't feel it was right to actively
participate in starting a new organization while I was a USHPA Board
member. Isn't it funny how things work out?
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
#64
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| bobk wrote: |
| pud wrote: |
Wow, a new US HG association. Things must be bad.
What went wrong in the US? |
Hi Mike,
It's probably the same thing that's happened a million times:
Organization starts out lean and supportive of its members.
Organization grows and gains more power.
... |
We can try to not let this happen again by analyzing what brought us here:
- USHPA included PG which looked promising because it was growing and
it was easier to make money with PG training. USHPA lost the motivation
to specifically enable hang gliding, and some in power even tried to
stop hang gliding because they thought paragliding is the new, better
way.
- USHPA built up this regulatory system that is complex and does not react well to shrinking membership numbers.
- USHPA in a drive to make the sport safer made it also harder
to teach new students - at a time when we really need to add new
students.
- USHPA abused its rating system. In short it went like this:
people with business interest (school owner) got into bed with USHPA
management to maintain an unequal rating requirement at local sites to
promote their business and suppress others that also wanted to fly but
didn't further their business.
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fakeDecoy
3 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 567
Location: Fort Funston, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
#65
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| pud wrote: |
Wow, a new US HG association. Things must be bad.
As an observer from across the water I must admit that I haven’t
taken too much interest in US HG politics, but that is not to say I
don’t care. After all, one day there might be a W.H.G.A (World Hang
Gliding Association).
What went wrong in the US?
Regards & good luck
Mike |
Don't believe everything you read. It gets blown way out of proportion
here on this forum by two or three vocal Americans, making it look like
the entire country is in revolt. Most of us just use the rating system
and stuff and fly with the provided insurance and otherwise have no
idea that a few people have concerns about it.
_________________
T2 / Litespeed / HPAT
I fly Funston because it's cold and wet.
Never trust internet pilots! |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: |
#66
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Thread-jacking 
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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pud
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 150
Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
#67
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Was that ment for me?
_________________
Skyhook BogRog built from plans
Own design and built experiment
Skyhook Sunspot
Skyhook Sabre (CFX)
23 year rest…
Airwave Calypso
Airwave Kiss |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
#68
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No,
towards fakeDecoy. Considering the number of members the Torrey Hawks
got from everyone being pissed off, its patently false that its just 3
people here bitching. They are a waste of time. But I dont want this
thread turning into a ushpa argument.
Considering the apathy in the US, I dont have a whole lot of hope, but
you will never know until you try, and CHOICE is always a good thing,
so is competition, so cant imagine why anyone would be against this.
However... if people have no interest, leave the people alone who are
willing to work towards a new org that actually listens to its members.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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fly,surf,&ski
3 thumbs up
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Posts: 529
Location: Torrey Pines
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
#69
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| fakeDecoy wrote: |
Don't believe everything you read. It gets blown way out of
proportion here on this forum by two or three vocal Americans, making
it look like the entire country is in revolt. Most of us just use the
rating system and stuff and fly with the provided insurance and
otherwise have no idea that a few people have concerns about it. |
I'm sure Mr Jebb/Hall would say something similar if anyone ever
complained about commercial tandems having the right away both
directions..... 
I'll join the new org too
_________________
Help preserve Hang Gliding at Torrey Pines
Join the Torrey Hawks (its free) |
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BBJCaptain
3 thumbs up
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 220
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: |
#70
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NAHGA.......North American Hang Gliding Assn.
The logo could be just like the old USHGA logo except it could have a
topless, Rigid and a Mill/Swift to make it look New and fresh.
To get the most support for this effort, we would have to make it so
everyone could keep their current rating level. I think most Adv/Mas
rated Pilots have invested a lot of time and hard work to get their
current rating level. This would be one of our top 4 or 5 issues that
needs to be addressed
1) Insurance
2) Flying sites / land owners / BLM
3) Far 103 / FAA (training / waivers -( maybe # 2 ))
4) Rating System
5) Growing Membership ( might be # 1 also )
Count me in
_________________
First Flight 3/79 H4 ,FL,CL,FSL,AWCL, TUR, RLF, XC
Cirrus 3, UP Mosquito, Delta Wing Streak, Moyes XS,
Exxtacy 160, Founding Member HGAA # ?
ATP,MEL,HELI,
Open carry IS our second amendment in action. Concealed carry is a regulated privilege.
Last edited by BBJCaptain
on Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skypilot155
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 443
Location: Grass Valley, California
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |
#71
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I'll join, if some basic questions can be addressed
What's the membership fee? Who will decide who gets what rating, and do
the ratings we have transfer? What will we need to do to get rated as
instructors? Who'll work on getting insurnace coverage, both site and
pilot? And most important, will there be a secret handshake?
_________________
H-3 FL FSL ST
Sport2 155
Sport Pilot Antares 582 Trike
USAF 74/78 and USAFR 88/90 and proud to have served
Don't die until you're dead and in the mean time keep your eyes on Jesus |
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jspin72
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 151
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
#72
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count me in and i'll help sg with the web dev
too bad i just renewed my $270 tandem membership, oh well  |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: |
#73
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| jspin72 wrote: |
count me in and i'll help sg with the web dev
too bad i just renewed my $270 tandem membership, oh well |
You bought the only insurance available currently, not much you could
have done differently if you wanted to continue under coverage. |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:54 pm Post subject: |
#74
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| BBJCaptain wrote: |
| To
get the most support for this effort, we would have to make it so
everyone could keep their current rating level. I think most Adv/Mas
rated Pilots have invested a lot of time and hard work to get their
current rating level. |
That would be funny if the new org sent all pilots back to training camp. 
That said, I suggest to have only a single license - the one that
allows you to fly a hang glider. Just like the FAA only requires one
license to fly a single engine land plane - which is what the majority
of private pilots ever need to fly all they want. No need to be holier
then the church.
For bragging rights everyone can still tack the old USHPA rating to
the new one. Perhaps the new org should list the old ratings on the
membership card. As long as they aren't used to shut pilots out of a
site, why not.
We'll have to find other ways to assess a visiting pilot's capabilities
and see how much coaching they may need to fly a local site, and if
they should even fly here in the first place. The FAA uses the number
of flight hours most of the times to quantify pilot experience. That's
not a bad approach. We'd have to log our flights, but at least we can
do this ourselves and are not at the mercy of an "official" that may
live in the next state over.
With the small group we have become we can talk to each visiting pilot
and we won't need a rating to see how much experience he/she brings to
the table. |
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mtpilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 189
Location: montana
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: |
#75
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I think what is really missing in our sport is good accessible training
hills and easy to fly sites.We recently lost our only training hill. Then there
is the ever present insurance thing. Layers of insurance and legal documents
because none of them seem to have any real meaning.How about one
good policy for the pilot,bought and paid for by the pilot.
_________________
MK4,eurosport 167,enterprise combat 152,
laminar st 14. H2. |
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ChattaroyMan
3 thumbs up
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 316
Location: Chattaroy, WA -USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:07 am Post subject: |
#76
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| tipvortex wrote: |
| How about USHGA and use this for the logo: |
Thirded! (or 4th-ed if I lost count).
I'd like to see the USHPA change.... such that HG and PG had their own
sub-orgs. Ultralights too for that matter. The way it (USHPA) currently
is seems to me to be like a single wheel with too many different spokes
- doesn't turn well. I'd like to see a vehicle with separate wheels
that all turn well and all add to propel the Mother Ship. If a new org
can bring this about - count me in.
_________________
Last glider: Aolus 190
Last ultralight: Quicksilver MXL
Current wing: Working on it. |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: Founding Members |
#77
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I
was at the aerobatics event yesterday, and I was tending the grill when
I saw both of the incidents first hand. I think I'd like to put this
topic on the back burner for a few days out of respect for the passing
of Tom Mayer and the near loss of our own "Dog Gone Bill".
But I will note the addition of our new founding members since my last post:
fly,surf,&ski
BBJCaptain
jspin72
ChattaroyMan
Here's the current list of Founding members and regular members. I
have a question mark next to any names that were not explicit, and I'd
like a confirmation from those people that they would like to be
founding members. Also let me know if I've missed anyone so far.
Thanks.
bobk
Wingspan34
JB
SG
joefaust
HangLoose
Eddie Paul
Holger
$!><
darkcloud
blindrodie
tipvortex
Rebardan (?)
slimchance
Windlord
OSCAR
Dennis D
SkyPilot
knumbknuts
SeeMarkFly
mtpilot
HGXC
fly,surf,&ski
BBJCaptain
jspin72
ChattaroyMan
Davedebogusone
miguel
synclavier
Jason
hgflyer
gluesniffer
skypilot155
topgun21
addicted2climbing
dscotts
Ken Bryenton
Flyking
Cal Glider
ClandestineSwine
Ryan Voight
Scare!
Ib_local
oden
David W. Johnson
Anadactyl
airzoneallen
supernova227 = Deirdre
sam kellner
timberwood
Fletcher
SlopeSkimmer (via PM)
Finally, yesterday's events were devastating to many people. If we
do found a new organization it will not be designed to take short cuts
in safety.
Be safe my friends,
Bob Kuczewski
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Last edited by bobk
on Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:05 pm; edited 25 times in total |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
#78
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| bobk wrote: |
| Finally,
yesterday's events were devastating to many people. If we do found a
new organization it will not be designed to take short cuts in safety |
Shortcuts no, but aerobatic accidents have little to do with the
association's safety mandate. Those pilots are watching over their own
safety.
My heart goes out to family, friends and those who had to witness. |
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Davedebogusone
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 683
Location: Beaumont ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
#79
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| Count me in and let me know what the decided logo/name is. |
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miguel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 309
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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
#80
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| Sign me up. |
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