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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
#181
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I also think hanggliding.org would be a bad name for a new us organization.
The other 4 names are far superior.
Lets do a quick public straw poll of those names.
Then a vote from everyone who has stated they will help.
A clear winner may arise that makes the choice obvious. If not, we can
continue with more advanced polling. I think messing around with the
old ushga name is a lost cause.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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old newbie
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 287
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:39 am Post subject: |
#182
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Well
at least you seem to be concentrating on what is most important, the
name since that seems to be what really caused more pilots to be upset
about the national org. 
If this org is going to be serving the same purpose as what we
currently have; insurance, ratings, site insurance. I see it doing
nothing but creating complication and division.
How about taking a different role and promoting instruction,
flying and leadership. Use the energy to come up with plans that will
help the sport and use your clout to get USHPA to act on them. Apathy
is the biggest problem use the new org as an place for those that feel
frustrated working with USHPA (or don't want to or have not) to step up
and work on change. Keep the org inclusive not devisive.
Steve Forslund
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: |
#183
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Lots of people have tried to work with ushpa here and got shot down.
Their energy is better spent doing something positive and trying
this experiment to see if a new org that serves and listens to its
membership can work.
This is a call for leadership, not a debate thread about the new
org. There is nothing wrong with giving pilots choice and having even
more orgs to promote the sport. The scuba diving community is full of
them and it works. Besides, we dont even technically have a hang
gliding organization in the united states.
But again.... not the place for discussion.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: |
#184
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| sg wrote: |
"Lots of people have tried to work with ushpa here and got shot down."
...
"This is a call for leadership, not a debate thread about the new org." |
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2958
Location: Montana
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
#185
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| bobk wrote: |
| sg wrote: |
"Lots of people have tried to work with ushpa here and got shot down."
...
"This is a call for leadership, not a debate thread about the new org." |
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Fresh name, fresh start and new faces with new ideas.
_________________
In a frozen State of mind!
H-4 (1976), Wing history=Manta standard,Windlord 1B, Cumulus 10, Saturn 147 & Axis 13
Learn to fly hang gliders
(click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2628
Location: Beacon, New York USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
#186
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| sg wrote: |
| Seems you have already made up your mind that this is a bad idea and wish to undermine it. |
I started in Ellenville which was balkanized far worse than Torrey ever was.
I deal with newbies to the sport, every day. They want to fly, not choose sides.
A new organization is not a bad idea. Ostracizing instructors is a bad idea.
_________________
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
#187
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| Ostracizing instructors is a bad idea. |
You keep saying stuff like this, but its totally false.
How is anyone being ostracized?
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2628
Location: Beacon, New York USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: |
#189
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On page five
| sg wrote: |
| we can change the LEAD GEN program to only send leads to instructors/schools who sign up for the new org |
So either he was off topic, or I am on topic.
_________________
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: |
#190
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
On page five
| sg wrote: |
| we can change the LEAD GEN program to only send leads to instructors/schools who sign up for the new org |
So either he was off topic, or I am on topic. |
And ive made it clear that does not require you leaving any other org, so where is the issue?
Scuba divers often belong to multiple scuba orgs. No biggie.
Orgs offer services. If you want them, you join them.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: |
#191
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Not
trying to jump into your conversation with SG, just stating that there
is another thread that was started that all of these questions can be
dealt with.
_________________
$!><
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Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
#192
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I know.... I know... but Tom keeps posting here. Will answer in the other thread and provide a link there from now on.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: |
#193
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We need a door man. Some big ugly guy to make sure people stay in line. 
Oops.. I was just off topic. Sorry.
_________________
$!><
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Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: |
#194
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
On page five
| sg wrote: |
| we can change the LEAD GEN program to only send leads to instructors/schools who sign up for the new org |
So either he was off topic, or I am on topic. |
Would USHPA send leads to non-USHPA instructors who are rated under the
new organization? If so, then we might be able to cooperate. If not,
then you've answered your own implied question.
Sorry to post an answer here, but I didn't want to leave that hanging. I know...
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: |
#195
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Right then!!!!
Next bloke to post an off topic reply gets it!!!
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_________________
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Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: |
#196
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Yikes!!! ... OK, Back on topic...
| Holger wrote: |
| Before
we chisel out the bylaws I suggest doing a reality-check first.
Touching base with the members and find out what they want. We can
partly do this on the forum, but it is probably not fully
representative, plus we may not get all types to voice their wishes and
expectations. |
I think that will happen naturally as we grow. The initial bylaws will
be more about how we make decisions than what decisions we make. For
example, they will spell out who the officers are and what their duties
are. They will spell out how we meet, how a motion is presented, and
how it is voted on. Right now, we're really just winging it based on
some loosely accepted sense of what we want. But if I challenged the
validity of a poll or challenged who's making these decisions, there
would be no definitive answer to sustain or defeat that challenge.
That's what I'd like to see nailed down by July 4th. There will be
other ongoing issues like should we provide an "insurance only"
membership for paragliding? Should we include paragliding at all? Those
will be issues where we'll need to touch base with membership. But we
can't really do that until we have a way of deciding what questions we
want to ask. Right now we don't even have a structure that would allow
us to decide anything. So I think that's the next order of business,
and fortunately it's not too hard.
Does that help?
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2628
Location: Beacon, New York USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: |
#197
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So
am I to take it that I am not welcome in this Hang Gliding
organization? Sound like it is a call for followers only. John Adams
and Thomas Jefferson were founding fathers of the United States but
clashed constantly. Do you want an echo chamber or a viable entity.
Take off your blinders, my objections driven by the needs of the
newbies, not USHPA.
_________________
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4481
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
#198
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I've been out of it with the big o loop and then saturday's bbq then the accidents.
Could someone please summarize the top 3 points of the new org, which seem to be (correct me):
- cheaper
- better ratings/instruction system
- ?
I'm a little confused by the whole umbrella org thing.
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
#199
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| So
am I to take it that I am not welcome in this Hang Gliding
organization? Sound like it is a call for followers only. John Adams
and Thomas Jefferson were founding fathers of the United States but
clashed constantly. Do you want an echo chamber or a viable entity.
Take off your blinders, my objections driven by the needs of the
newbies, not USHPA. |
Im sure everyone will be welcomed, *After* its actually formed 
This thread is simply a call for founders/helpers who want to lend a hand in the creation of this new entity.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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SeeMarkFly
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1174
Location: Lakeview
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
#200
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| sg wrote: |
| I'm sure everyone will be welcomed, *After* its actually formed |
Tom, we (all of us) would be lost without your
grounded logic. I/we would LOVE to have you as a founding member to
bounce ides off of (just to see how high they CAN get).
Just because we don't always agree with each other does NOT mean
that I don't read AND respect what you post. It is MY life's
experiences that got ME HERE, and YOU THERE.
_________________
Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
Old Super Sport (I can't land this one)
complacency about complacency is the true enemy. |
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