Post new topic    Reply to topic    Forum Index ->HGAA: Call for Leaders and Founders
 
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #241    
flyhigh013 wrote:
I moved the discussion to the other thread:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=190920#190920

Thanks Ryan. You did indeed move the discussion to the other thread, and anyone wanting to discuss whether we should (or should not) have a new organization is welcome to join us there. Let's see if we can keep this one focussed on actually building a new organization.

It's clear that there's a lot of interest and excitement about a new organization, and I'm seeing people (including myself) jumping in and helping out. But at some point we're going to need a little better coordination of our efforts and that means some structure of leadership. I think that's our next order of business, and I'd like some thoughts on how we can get through this next short period (from now through July 4th) with some better organization than what we have now. Anyone?

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
CHassan
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 3862
Location: Ohio

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #242    
bobk wrote:
I just want to add one more comment regarding the "nay sayers" before we can hopefully move on to the topic of leadership...

We know that there are many pilots who are currently NOT members of USHPA. They've been discouraged or disgusted or turned off in one form or another.

If we can start a new organization that attracts those people (even if it takes some members away from USHPA) then we will have a BIGGER PIE than we had before. If we can share insurance costs across both organizations then we will actually be able to lower costs AND allow everyone to live within the kind of organization that they want.

Anyone who rejects that notion is NOT arguing about insurance costs. Instead they're really arguing about power and trying to retain it for themselves.


I thought the idea was to get away from the USHPA and NOT have to try and work with them. Others have said trying to work within the current system is a fruitless endeavor. What makes you think working with them from outside, as a competitor no less, will make it any easier to accomplish your goals? That includes getting them to group together for insurance.

_________________
WW U2
WW Sport 2
H3
AT, FL,ST, RLF, TUR.

Visit my Flickr page.
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
flyhigh013
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 3310
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #243    
bobk wrote:
flyhigh013 wrote:
I moved the discussion to the other thread:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=190920#190920

Thanks Ryan. You did indeed move the discussion to the other thread, and anyone wanting to discuss whether we should (or should not) have a new organization is welcome to join us there. Let's see if we can keep this one focussed on actually building a new organization.


I still think my questions weren't about whether we should or should not have another org, but more about how the new org needs to be implemented in a way that does no harm.

Just wanted to clarify... but regardless, we can discuss on the other thread...

_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.airthug.blogspot.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/user802494/videos
Send private message  
 Rate this post
Paul H
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Reno, NV

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #244    
I'm pretty sure that last association that was brought about to be a rival/competitor/choice to USHGA was not brought down by naysayers or attempts to derail it. It was brought down by a lack of interest. There were not enough pilots interested enough in it to keep it going. In every organization there are only a few who are willing to do any real work, but there are a lot of people who are willing to tell everyone else how things should be done. It's human nature. That's how the USHPA got into it's present state of affairs. The problems with the USHPA could be fixed, but it's the same old story.....who is willing to do the work? The only time that is seems enough members got worked up enough to actually take action was the recent region 3 recall. Unfortunately that was not what most of us would call a positive action, but it is that kind of emotional response to an issue that is what is needed to change things.



bobk wrote:

Hi Paul,

I think Ryan knows that this is a chicken and egg situation. You're right that it takes work to start a new organization. And work means people. And people mean volunteers. But how do you get and harness volunteers without an organization for them to work within? Well, then you have to start a new organization. And that takes work. And work means people...

Ryan wants to keep us going round in circles chasing our tails. His posts are clearly intended to derail what might be a positive effort. I don't know if that's what happened to the last attempt at a new organization, but I'm going to do my best to keep it from happening to this one.

_________________
Paul Hurless
U2 160 and a new/old MK IV and my old XC
H4, FL, AT, PL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
USHPA # 51178 KE7VOG USN ret.
A & P mechanic
Send private message  
 Rate this post
BubbleBoy
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 2227

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #245    
Paul H wrote:
I'm pretty sure that last association that was brought about to be a rival/competitor/choice to USHGA was not brought down by naysayers or attempts to derail it. It was brought down by a lack of interest.


Yep -- and that's the likely destination of this one. That of course doesn't mean I'm not willing to try -- I am.

JB
Send private message  
 Rating: 3 thumbs up
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #246    
Paul H wrote:
I'm pretty sure that last association ...

Paul, your comments are more about whether we can have a new organization than the mechanics of how to actually accomplish that. So I'll answer you on the other topic, and I'll be happy to continue that discussion there as long as you like. But again, let's keep this one on the original topic of finding founders and leaders of the new organization. Thanks.

P.S. Here's a link to the other topic: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17595

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
addicted2climbing
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 229
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #247    
Hey Bob,

I posted to this topic a while back but dont see my name on the list.. Please add me as well.

Marc

_________________
"If flying were the language of man, then soaring would be its poetry."
H2 Falcon1-225
NW Freedom 190 just arrived...waiting to reach H3 to transition.. Smile
Send private message  
 Rate this post
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #248    
addicted2climbing wrote:
Hey Bob,

I posted to this topic a while back but dont see my name on the list.. Please add me as well.

Marc

Sorry about that!!!

I went back and found your post and slipped you into the approximate location in the list.

I think we're going to need a membership committee soon!! Smile

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
Paul H
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Reno, NV

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #249    
No, my comments are directed at the most basic mechanics of an organization. You have to have the people involved who will do the work not just ride along.

bobk wrote:
Paul H wrote:
I'm pretty sure that last association ...

Paul, your comments are more about whether we can have a new organization than the mechanics of how to actually accomplish that. So I'll answer you on the other topic, and I'll be happy to continue that discussion there as long as you like. But again, let's keep this one on the original topic of finding founders and leaders of the new organization. Thanks.

P.S. Here's a link to the other topic: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17595

_________________
Paul Hurless
U2 160 and a new/old MK IV and my old XC
H4, FL, AT, PL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
USHPA # 51178 KE7VOG USN ret.
A & P mechanic
Send private message  
 Rate this post
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #250    
Paul H wrote:
... my comments are directed at the most basic mechanics of an organization. You have to have the people involved who will do the work not just ride along.

We're in 100% agreement there. That's what this topic is about. We're gathering together people willing to pitch in and help found a new organization. If we can find enough people and resources, then I think we can do it. If we can't ... then we can't.

I think I wrote something pretty similar to that in my first post to this topic.

So where do you stand on that spectrum. Are you willing to pitch in and help us get a good solid launch?

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
sg
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #251    
Those people will show up or they wont. Time will tell. Its worth rolling the dice.
The big advantage we do have is, its 2010, and we can run this new org using 2010 technology. Virtually, paperless (at least close to), without a schedule, people work on their own time, etc, etc, etc Ushpa is still stuck in the dark ages.
If built correctly, it wouldnt take much to run it. Something we can slowly peck away at over a long period of time. I already have a volunteer coder, and I bet ill get more Wink I think we can get a loyal following by listening to and treating people right. Over time it could grow... or not. Like I said before... id rather try and go down in flames, then never know if it would have worked. Ive already had random people pledge several hundred dollars to me in PMs even!

_________________

H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142

"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #252    
Formal Request

sg wrote:
Ive already had random people pledge several hundred dollars to me in PMs even!

If I might ask one small favor of the new organization...

I have a bank draft from USHPA for $250 which represents their rejected site insurance for the Torrey Hawks.

I formally request that the $250 from that check be the first actual money donated to the new organization. I hadn't mentioned it yet because we don't have an organization yet. But as things move forward, I'd like to make that request of whoever is in a position to grant it. Somehow it seems very fitting.

Thanks.
Bob Kuczewski

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
sg
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote #253    
Heh.... if a few more people pledge early funding, will break a grand in just a few days Mr. Green
_________________

H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142

"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #254    
sg wrote:
Heh.... if a few more people pledge early funding, will break a grand in just a few days Mr. Green

Well, unlike the Hawks, it looks like we're going to need a treasurer right up front!!

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
flyhigh013
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 3310
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #255    
I was pursuaded to help furnish the room Laughing

Please add me to the list.

_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.airthug.blogspot.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/user802494/videos
Send private message  
 Rate this post
Windlord
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2958
Location: Montana

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #256    
flyhigh013 wrote:
I was pursuaded to help furnish the room Laughing

Please add me to the list.

Ryan, you would be a great asset, especially when it comes down to organizing and setting up of the instructors area. Because without instructors, like
yourself, this sport will never grow.
welcome

_________________
In a frozen State of mind!
H-4 (1976), Wing history=Manta standard,Windlord 1B, Cumulus 10, Saturn 147 & Axis 13
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208
Send private message  
 Rate this post
bobk
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #257    
flyhigh013 wrote:
I was pursuaded to help furnish the room Laughing

Please add me to the list.

Ryan's going to be our most valuable member. We'll know that when we've convinced him of an idea ... it's as good as gold!!

welcome

_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang glidersJoin the Torrey HawksFly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
$!><
2 thumbs up
2 thumbs up


Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #258    
I won't be around a computer for a while so I won't be able to update the list which I assume someone is keeping track of new people that are joining in. I just put it in alpabetical order and hope it keeps going that way so it is easier to see who is on it. I was also trying to just track who was voting for what name but have been kinda swamped at work (friggin work related stuff...the nerve of my employer....) so I may have lost track of who voted for what name. Again, if someone can pick up the ball.

I will be at the bar so you don't want me editing a list anyway. Mr. Green

_________________
$!><
____________

Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
sg
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #259    
*bump*
_________________

H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142

"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown
Send private message Blog  
 Rate this post
SeeMarkFly
3 thumbs up
3 thumbs up


Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1174
Location: Lakeview

Post Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote #260    
$!>< wrote:
I just put it in alphabetical order
I HATE alphabetical order.
Mark Webber
aka USHPA SUCKS
dba Zeus.

_________________
Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
Old Super Sport (I can't land this one)


complacency about complacency is the true enemy.
Send private message  
 Rate this post
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Forum Index
 
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous   1 , 2 , 3 ... 12 , 13, 14 ... 16 , 17 , 18   Next
Page 13 of 18