|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: |
#241
|
Thanks Ryan. You did indeed move the discussion to the other thread,
and anyone wanting to discuss whether we should (or should not) have a
new organization is welcome to join us there. Let's see if we can keep
this one focussed on actually building a new organization.
It's clear that there's a lot of interest and excitement about a
new organization, and I'm seeing people (including myself) jumping in
and helping out. But at some point we're going to need a little better
coordination of our efforts and that means some structure of
leadership. I think that's our next order of business, and I'd like
some thoughts on how we can get through this next short period (from
now through July 4th) with some better organization than what we have
now. Anyone?
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
CHassan
3 thumbs up
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 3862
Location: Ohio
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
#242
|
bobk wrote: |
I just want to add one more comment regarding the "nay sayers" before we can hopefully move on to the topic of leadership...
We know that there are many pilots who are currently NOT members of
USHPA. They've been discouraged or disgusted or turned off in one form
or another.
If we can start a new organization that attracts those people (even
if it takes some members away from USHPA) then we will have a BIGGER
PIE than we had before. If we can share insurance costs across both
organizations then we will actually be able to lower costs AND allow
everyone to live within the kind of organization that they want.
Anyone who rejects that notion is NOT arguing about insurance
costs. Instead they're really arguing about power and trying to retain
it for themselves. |
I thought the idea was to get away from the USHPA and NOT have to
try and work with them. Others have said trying to work within the
current system is a fruitless endeavor. What makes you think working
with them from outside, as a competitor no less, will make it any
easier to accomplish your goals? That includes getting them to group
together for insurance.
_________________
WW U2
WW Sport 2
H3
AT, FL,ST, RLF, TUR.
Visit my Flickr page.
|
|
|
|
flyhigh013
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 3310
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
#243
|
bobk wrote: |
Thanks Ryan. You did indeed move the discussion to the other thread,
and anyone wanting to discuss whether we should (or should not) have a
new organization is welcome to join us there. Let's see if we can keep
this one focussed on actually building a new organization. |
I still think my questions weren't about whether we should or should
not have another org, but more about how the new org needs to be
implemented in a way that does no harm.
Just wanted to clarify... but regardless, we can discuss on the other thread...
_________________
Ryan Voight
BLOG: www.airthug.blogspot.com
VIDEOS: http://vimeo.com/user802494/videos
|
|
|
|
Paul H
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Reno, NV
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
#244
|
I'm
pretty sure that last association that was brought about to be a
rival/competitor/choice to USHGA was not brought down by naysayers or
attempts to derail it. It was brought down by a lack of interest. There
were not enough pilots interested enough in it to keep it going. In
every organization there are only a few who are willing to do any real
work, but there are a lot of people who are willing to tell everyone
else how things should be done. It's human nature. That's how the USHPA
got into it's present state of affairs. The problems with the USHPA
could be fixed, but it's the same old story.....who is willing to do
the work? The only time that is seems enough members got worked up
enough to actually take action was the recent region 3 recall.
Unfortunately that was not what most of us would call a positive
action, but it is that kind of emotional response to an issue that is
what is needed to change things.
bobk wrote: |
Hi Paul,
I think Ryan knows that this is a chicken and egg situation. You're
right that it takes work to start a new organization. And work means
people. And people mean volunteers. But how do you get and harness
volunteers without an organization for them to work within? Well, then
you have to start a new organization. And that takes work. And work
means people...
Ryan wants to keep us going round in circles chasing our tails. His
posts are clearly intended to derail what might be a positive effort. I
don't know if that's what happened to the last attempt at a new
organization, but I'm going to do my best to keep it from happening to
this one. |
_________________
Paul Hurless
U2 160 and a new/old MK IV and my old XC
H4, FL, AT, PL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
USHPA # 51178 KE7VOG USN ret.
A & P mechanic |
|
|
|
BubbleBoy
2 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 2227
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
#245
|
Paul H wrote: |
I'm
pretty sure that last association that was brought about to be a
rival/competitor/choice to USHGA was not brought down by naysayers or
attempts to derail it. It was brought down by a lack of interest. |
Yep -- and that's the likely destination of this one. That of course doesn't mean I'm not willing to try -- I am.
JB |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
#246
|
Paul H wrote: |
I'm pretty sure that last association ... |
Paul, your comments are more about whether we can have a new
organization than the mechanics of how to actually accomplish that. So
I'll answer you on the other topic, and I'll be happy to continue that
discussion there as long as you like. But again, let's keep this one on
the original topic of finding founders and leaders of the new
organization. Thanks.
P.S. Here's a link to the other topic: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17595
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
addicted2climbing
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 229
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: |
#247
|
Hey Bob,
I posted to this topic a while back but dont see my name on the list.. Please add me as well.
Marc
_________________
"If flying were the language of man, then soaring would be its poetry."
H2 Falcon1-225
NW Freedom 190 just arrived...waiting to reach H3 to transition.. |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
#248
|
addicted2climbing wrote: |
Hey Bob,
I posted to this topic a while back but dont see my name on the list.. Please add me as well.
Marc |
Sorry about that!!!
I went back and found your post and slipped you into the approximate location in the list.
I think we're going to need a membership committee soon!!
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
Paul H
3 thumbs up
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Reno, NV
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: |
#249
|
No,
my comments are directed at the most basic mechanics of an
organization. You have to have the people involved who will do the work
not just ride along.
bobk wrote: |
Paul H wrote: |
I'm pretty sure that last association ... |
Paul, your comments are more about whether we can have a new
organization than the mechanics of how to actually accomplish that. So
I'll answer you on the other topic, and I'll be happy to continue that
discussion there as long as you like. But again, let's keep this one on
the original topic of finding founders and leaders of the new
organization. Thanks.
P.S. Here's a link to the other topic: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17595
|
_________________
Paul Hurless
U2 160 and a new/old MK IV and my old XC
H4, FL, AT, PL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
USHPA # 51178 KE7VOG USN ret.
A & P mechanic |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: |
#250
|
Paul H wrote: |
...
my comments are directed at the most basic mechanics of an
organization. You have to have the people involved who will do the work
not just ride along. |
We're in 100% agreement there. That's what this topic is about. We're
gathering together people willing to pitch in and help found a new
organization. If we can find enough people and resources, then I think
we can do it. If we can't ... then we can't.
I think I wrote something pretty similar to that in my first post to this topic.
So where do you stand on that spectrum. Are you willing to pitch in and help us get a good solid launch?
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: |
#251
|
Those people will show up or they wont. Time will tell. Its worth rolling the dice.
The big advantage we do have is, its 2010, and we can run this new
org using 2010 technology. Virtually, paperless (at least close to),
without a schedule, people work on their own time, etc, etc, etc Ushpa
is still stuck in the dark ages.
If built correctly, it wouldnt take much to run it. Something we
can slowly peck away at over a long period of time. I already have a
volunteer coder, and I bet ill get more
I think we can get a loyal following by listening to and treating
people right. Over time it could grow... or not. Like I said before...
id rather try and go down in flames, then never know if it would have
worked. Ive already had random people pledge several hundred dollars to
me in PMs even!
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:52 am Post subject: |
#252
|
Formal Request
sg wrote: |
Ive already had random people pledge several hundred dollars to me in PMs even! |
If I might ask one small favor of the new organization...
I have a bank draft from USHPA for $250 which represents their rejected site insurance for the Torrey Hawks.
I formally request that the $250 from that check be the first actual
money donated to the new organization. I hadn't mentioned it yet
because we don't have an organization yet. But as things move forward,
I'd like to make that request of whoever is in a position to grant it.
Somehow it seems very fitting.
Thanks.
Bob Kuczewski
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
#253
|
Heh.... if a few more people pledge early funding, will break a grand in just a few days
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
#254
|
sg wrote: |
Heh.... if a few more people pledge early funding, will break a grand in just a few days |
Well, unlike the Hawks, it looks like we're going to need a treasurer right up front!!
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
flyhigh013
3 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 3310
Location: Point of the Mountain, Draper, UT
|
|
|
|
Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2958
Location: Montana
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
#256
|
flyhigh013 wrote: |
I was pursuaded to help furnish the room
Please add me to the list. |
Ryan, you would be a great asset, especially when it comes down to
organizing and setting up of the instructors area. Because without
instructors, like
yourself, this sport will never grow.
_________________
In a frozen State of mind!
H-4 (1976), Wing history=Manta standard,Windlord 1B, Cumulus 10, Saturn 147 & Axis 13
Learn to fly hang gliders
(click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
#257
|
flyhigh013 wrote: |
I was pursuaded to help furnish the room
Please add me to the list. |
Ryan's going to be our most valuable member. We'll know that when we've convinced him of an idea ... it's as good as gold!!
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: |
#258
|
I
won't be around a computer for a while so I won't be able to update the
list which I assume someone is keeping track of new people that are
joining in. I just put it in alpabetical order and hope it keeps going
that way so it is easier to see who is on it. I was also trying to just
track who was voting for what name but have been kinda swamped at work
(friggin work related stuff...the nerve of my employer....) so I may
have lost track of who voted for what name. Again, if someone can pick
up the ball.
I will be at the bar so you don't want me editing a list anyway.
_________________
$!><
____________
Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
|
|
|
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
#259
|
*bump*
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
|
|
|
SeeMarkFly
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1174
Location: Lakeview
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
#260
|
$!>< wrote: |
I just put it in alphabetical order |
I HATE alphabetical order.
Mark Webber
aka USHPA SUCKS
dba Zeus.
_________________
Mark Webber
225 Falcon (I can land this one)
Old Super Sport (I can't land this one)
complacency about complacency is the true enemy. |
|
|
|
|