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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: |
#141
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| $!>< wrote: |
| I
think the name can be picked with what we have. Once we have a name, we
can then make a site, and then build a more elaborate and logical way
of doing things. Gotta lay the first brick somewhere and that starts
with the name. |
I agree there as well.
We've got some great names so far, and here are some random thoughts...
I like a name that starts with an "H" because that's going to be our
focus. Even if we are later enveloped by some larger organization, I
still like the hang gliding branch starting with an "H".
I am patriotic (and from the US), but a US-specific name limits us.
On the other hand, it seems that compared to paragliding, HG is more
concentrated in the US. Does anyone have any numbers? Also, will our
organization be able to operate (insurance, etc) outside of the US? I
don't know the answers, but I suspect they're important to the name.
I also like something that's easily
pronouncable, but there aren't too many in that list. I even thought
about using a bird name like the US Hawks Hang Gliding Association
(USHHGA) - coincidentally pronounced like USHGA, and I'm surprised that
I don't see any on the list.
Well, those random thoughts didn't bring me to any decisions, but I hope you didn't mind me sharing. 
AHGA American Hang Gliding Association
HGAA Hang Gliding Association of America
HGAUSA Hang Gliding Association USA (hgausa.org - already donated to the organization)
FSA Footlaunch Soaring Association fsa.aero
USA Ultralight Soaring Association, domain: usa.aero
USHGA United States Hang Gliding Association (previous name of USHPA - may be a legal battle)
USFLA United States Foot Launch Association
FLAPA Foot Launched/Landed Aircraft Pilot's Assciation
NAHGA North American Hang Gliding Association
American Delta Wing Pilots' Association
American Aero Wing Pilots' Association
UHGCA United Hang Glider Clubs of America ----> A tribal kind of idea...
SHAG Some Hang, All Glide.
FLAG Foot launch and glide.
Wind Spirits.
Upshots.
Wind Sliders.
Quantum Monkeys.
US Hawks HGA
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1896
Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
#142
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| gluesniffer wrote: |
Also
if anyone has thought of a name that they know kicks azs, maybe they
should go ahead and pay for the name just in case some one reads our
OPEN discussions and buys the preferred name out from under us 
or am i just paranoid |
I'm just as paranoid - if not more so! But the great thing is that with
Joe's generous offer, we always have HGAUSA.org to fall back on. I'd be
very happy with that and it's already registered and it comes with the
good will and best wishes of USHGA member #5 - Joe Faust. That's almost
good enough for me as it is. Thanks again and again Joe!! 
Also, it's possible that SG might convert hanggliding.org to the cause,
and I think we should give him some time to think that through. That's
not to be considered as ANY pressure on SG because he's put his heart
and soul into this web site. In fact, there are good reasons to NOT
have them be the same, and that's why it will take some careful thought.
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders
• Join the Torrey Hawks
• Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs
Last edited by bobk
on Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2700
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
#143
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Let me add to the mix.
HGA=Hang Gliders (or Gliding) Assoc. And for any reason? If we must
include paragliding. They can be called PGA. Since PGA is already
taken. They'll have to struggle to define their identity, within the
HGA ;)
Based on each states population and future growth of schools or
clubs; There could be NCHGA (Northern Ca HGA), SCHGA (Southern Ca HGA),
CCHGA (Central Ca HGA), etc....
And finally, subsets of regional schools or clubs. Ex. Bobs school
of hanggliding, We hate paragliders HG club (T/C tongue and cheek), We
include paragliders HG club, and last but not least. School of "I can't
create a monopoly" school of HG.
HGA, would also be inclusive to International growth. Ex. MHGA (Mexico HGA), AHGA (Australian HGA), you get the point!
My 2 cents.
cheers |
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addicted2climbing
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 229
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
#144
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Hello Bob,
While I am all for competiton, I have not been in the HG community
long enough to be truely informed on why there should be 2
organizations. How difficult is it to get flying sites to agree to
another organizations insurance or more so new ratings? and in doing so
would there be a division of sites that only allow one or the other?
Sort of reminds me of times when Skii areas started banning
snowboarding..but thats just an analogy. Perhaps a seccesion of the
states is a better one.. Anyhow, just curious if a division of a group
that is already a powerfull voice for our sport would hurt that voice
now that it is being voiced by 2 seperate groups with differnet views
and agendas. As I said, I am only asking because I am too new to know
why and how we got here.
Now onto other things. I would be willing to be a part of this to
see how it goes. Perhaps we could have an internet magazine with
articles written by members and submitted for all to read. I would
imagine that would keep costs down.
Take care,
Marc
_________________
"If flying were the language of man, then soaring would be its poetry."
H2 Falcon1-225
NW Freedom 190 just arrived...waiting to reach H3 to transition.. |
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TomGalvin
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2628
Location: Beacon, New York USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
#145
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| sg wrote: |
Bashing? Standing in the way? So inaccurate.
Thats like saying I was standing in the way of hang gliding when I stopped sending ushpa free leads. |
You only have a fraction of the nations instructors in your Lead
Gen. Now you want shrink that even more. Only ideologically pure
instructors allowed? How does that help the grow the sport?
_________________
Tell us about where you fly in the Site Guide
My User Page
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hgflyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2700
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
#146
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| sg wrote: |
Bashing? Standing in the way? So inaccurate.
Thats like saying I was standing in the way of hang gliding when I stopped sending ushpa free leads. |
You only have a fraction of the nations instructors in your Lead Gen.
Now you want shrink that even more. Only ideologically pure instructors
allowed? How does that help the grow the sport? |
I'm sure there could be a school named; OFF TOPIC HG school. "Since we
don't believe in pure instruction, we'll focus on the OFF TOPICS!"
Last edited by hgflyer
on Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4481
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
#147
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| sg wrote: |
Bashing? Standing in the way? So inaccurate.
Thats like saying I was standing in the way of hang gliding when I stopped sending ushpa free leads. |
You only have a fraction of the nations instructors in your Lead Gen.
Now you want shrink that even more. Only ideologically pure instructors
allowed? How does that help the grow the sport? |
Is this the right room for an argument?
I've told you once.
No, you didn't.
Yes, I did.... |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
#148
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Marc,
have faith that we're not out to divide the community. Give us some
time to come up with a compelling concept. Then we'll see what that
means in regards to USHPA, their ratings and insurance. None of us has
a ready-made recipe, but I'm sure we're all aware we're dealing with a
delicate issue. Maybe this will reassure you some:
* The new org isn't going to suddenly put out a new rating system that is incompatible with the old one.
* The existing ratings will be valid in the future.
* Site owners usually don't care about the types of ratings (even
if it was claimed by the site operators, i.e. in TP). They only want to
know we let only qualified pilots fly there. Hence I don't think
introducing a new rating will bring much headache to the site insurance
situation (but there are commercial interests in play that we'll have
to deal with)
* We'll have to work with the FAA. New ratings are a long-term goal, and one that involves politics.
* If we get enough HG pilots on board we may convince the USHPA to
change their rating system (HG only) to address our concerns. USHPA and
the new organization may come to a compromise and have the same
ratings.
Davis in his first reaction ("this is nuts!") says with two
organizations offering two insurances the premiums will be higher.
There may not be the option of two insurances. The entire experimental
aircraft insurance market has exactly 2 underwriters in the US. There
may only be a single underwriter that is willing to offer us insurance.
USHPA may have the only contract there is. In this case the new org
will have to arrange with USHPA, simple as that. That doesn't mean the
new org doesn't make sense, if we can use it to lobby for HG specific
interests.
And if there's more insurance to be had then the USHPA insinuates,
great, we'll tap that and probably bring premiums down, not up. |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: |
#149
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| sg wrote: |
Bashing? Standing in the way? So inaccurate.
Thats like saying I was standing in the way of hang gliding when I stopped sending ushpa free leads. |
You only have a fraction of the nations instructors in your Lead Gen.
Now you want shrink that even more. Only ideologically pure instructors
allowed? How does that help the grow the sport? |
Seems you have already made up your mind that this is a bad idea and wish to undermine it.
"Only ideologically pure instructors allowed?" <---- this is a
blatant strawman argument and this thread is not the place for it.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
#150
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Well,
because I suggested them and am kind of paranoid as well of someone
scooping them up I just broke the bank and dropped $21.15 to secure the
following domains for a year.
hgaa.org
hgaa.us
ahga.us
Should these names be selected I will donate them to the cause.
_________________
$!><
____________
Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4481
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
#152
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| Quote: |
| new top level domain names are coming so we may not have to be too tied down to .org and .com... |
The question is when would this be in place? Probably not any time
in the immediate future. If we can grab up the names we need now and
then move into the new system it won't be that much of a financial
investment to secure what we can at the moment.
_________________
$!><
____________
Live while you are alive.
Kilo-Bravo-One-Uniform-Charlie-Victor
Hang Hang
WW-Sport 2 175
Z5
http://www.vimeo.com/swineflew
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$!><
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Connecticut
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skypilot155
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 443
Location: Grass Valley, California
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
#154
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| Quote: |
skypilot155 wrote:
I'll join, if some basic questions can be addressed
What's the membership fee? Who will decide who gets what rating, and do
the ratings we have transfer? What will we need to do to get rated as
instructors? Who'll work on getting insurnace coverage, both site and
pilot? And most important, will there be a secret handshake?
I think all of these questions should be answered by a vote of the
founding members (or by their elected representatives?). We're still in
the bootstrapping phase (almost like the First Continental Congress in
1774). So the first order of business is to establish a group of people
who will actually answer all of those questions through a democratic
process. I plan to be just one of those people, and I hope there will
be many more. In fact, I'd like all Founding Members to be voting on
these issues.
Having said that, my own vote would be to start out with no membership
fee until we've got sufficient members to provide insurance. At that
point, I'd like to shoot for a target membership fee of around $50 to
be competitive with the existing market.
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In that case sign me up
_________________
H-3 FL FSL ST
Sport2 155
Sport Pilot Antares 582 Trike
USAF 74/78 and USAFR 88/90 and proud to have served
Don't die until you're dead and in the mean time keep your eyes on Jesus |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
#155
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Im
working under the assumption that we will end up with an umbrella org
that will allow the individual orgs to have strong self identies. Which
allows us to grow our insurance pool and drive rates down and ends any
possible power struggles between different wing types.
If thats the case, we should explicitly include the word HANG GLIDING in the name of our first sub-org.
Therefore, my thoughts on the current name list are:
FSA Footlaunch Soaring Association fsa.aero - missing hang gliding
USA Ultralight Soaring Association, domain: usa.aero - missing hang gliding
USHGA United States Hang Gliding Association- ushpa will never allow it - dont need a legal battle up front
USFLA United States Foot Launch Association - doesnt specify hang gliding
FLAPA Foot Launched/Landed Aircraft Pilot's Assciation - doesnt specify hang gliding
American Delta Wing Pilots' Association - not specific enough, could include delta wing powered ultralights
American Aero Wing Pilots' Association - doesnt include hang gliding
United Hang Glider Clubs of America ----> represents many clubs, not our first one
Some of the above names COULD be good for the generic umbrella org though. Like usa.aero, etc
Anyway.... that leaves us with:
1. AHGA American Hang Gliding Association
2. HGAA Hang Gliding Association of America
3. HGAUSA Hang Gliding Association USA (hgausa.org - already donated to the organization)
4. NAHGA North American Hang Gliding Association
I like 1 and 4 because you can chant them 
NAH-GAH! NAH-GAH! orrrr.... AH-GA! AH-GA! 
Thoughts?
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
#156
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Right on, SG. My generic names may work for the umbrella, but not here.
My favorite: HGAA
Maybe add:
NHGA - National Hang Gliding Association (nhga.org available) |
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Holger
2 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 805
Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
#157
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| hga.org is also available. Hang Gliding Association. |
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addicted2climbing
2 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 229
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
#158
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| Holger wrote: |
Marc,
have faith that we're not out to divide the community. Give us some
time to come up with a compelling concept. Then we'll see what that
means in regards to USHPA, their ratings and insurance. None of us has
a ready-made recipe, but I'm sure we're all aware we're dealing with a
delicate issue. Maybe this will reassure you some:
* The new org isn't going to suddenly put out a new rating system that is incompatible with the old one.
* The existing ratings will be valid in the future.
* Site owners usually don't care about the types of ratings (even
if it was claimed by the site operators, i.e. in TP). They only want to
know we let only qualified pilots fly there. Hence I don't think
introducing a new rating will bring much headache to the site insurance
situation (but there are commercial interests in play that we'll have
to deal with)
* We'll have to work with the FAA. New ratings are a long-term goal, and one that involves politics.
* If we get enough HG pilots on board we may convince the USHPA to
change their rating system (HG only) to address our concerns. USHPA and
the new organization may come to a compromise and have the same
ratings.
Davis in his first reaction ("this is nuts!") says with two
organizations offering two insurances the premiums will be higher.
There may not be the option of two insurances. The entire experimental
aircraft insurance market has exactly 2 underwriters in the US. There
may only be a single underwriter that is willing to offer us insurance.
USHPA may have the only contract there is. In this case the new org
will have to arrange with USHPA, simple as that. That doesn't mean the
new org doesn't make sense, if we can use it to lobby for HG specific
interests.
And if there's more insurance to be had then the USHPA insinuates,
great, we'll tap that and probably bring premiums down, not up. |
OK my worries were more so of possibly having issues being allowed to
fly at specific sites and such. While currently I only fly HG I know
many people fly both HG and PG. Would people who fly both have to be
members in both the new organization and USHPA or will there be some
coverage for PG as well in the new group? Or I suppose they could just
remain USHPA members only and still be covered. What you are suggestion
sounds a lot like what I belong to for Rock Climbing (Access Fund) but
for HG related issues. Maybe the mission statement could be similar to
theirs. Shown below..
mission and vision
The Access Fund is the national advocacy organization that keeps
U.S. climbing areas open and conserves the climbing environment.
Founded in 1990, the Access Fund supports and represents over 2.3
million climbers nationwide in all forms of climbing: rock, ice,
mountaineering, and bouldering.
Five core programs support the mission on national and local levels:
•Climbing management policy
•Local support & mobilization
•Stewardship & conservation
•Land acquisition & protection
•Education
_________________
"If flying were the language of man, then soaring would be its poetry."
H2 Falcon1-225
NW Freedom 190 just arrived...waiting to reach H3 to transition.. |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 9845
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
#159
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| Holger wrote: |
My favorite: HGAA
Maybe add:
NHGA - National Hang Gliding Association (nhga.org available) |
HGAA spelled out is the best one IMO.
Did a google search for it and found this thread
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
"To be what you've never been you must do what you've never done." - Unknown |
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mtpilot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 189
Location: montana
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: |
#160
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| TomGalvin wrote: |
| If
you want to stand in the way of someone finding a local instructor,
then how is that good for the sport. Do you think you were doing me a
favor with your lead gen? I don't do this for free. I pay to instruct.
I spend money to help bring new people into the sport. You and Bob are
bashing yourselves |
There are no local instructors that is one
BIG reason we must do this
_________________
MK4,eurosport 167,enterprise combat 152,
laminar st 14. H2. |
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